- In Brief
- In Depth
- Erva in Society
- Looking at Others
- Extending Erva
- Why should a woman's clothing be limited by how men might react to what they see? How does this affect different halachic expectations of women's and men's clothing?
- The Shok
- In Practice
- Pants
- Aren't pants sometimes more modest than skirts?
- Is it possible to dress completely modestly without following the precise details of Halacha?
- Further Reading
- Notes
- Sources
- Q&A
- Why should a woman's clothing be limited by how men might react to what they see? How does this affect different halachic expectations of women's and men's clothing?
- Aren't pants sometimes more modest than skirts?
- Is it possible to dress completely modestly without following the precise details of Halacha?
- Podcast
How do the laws of erva shift in interpersonal settings? How does this affect the laws of women’s clothing? And what are the halachot concerning skirts and pants?
In Brief
How do the laws of erva apply between different people?
We learned here that having one’s own erva (genitalia or buttocks) exposed presents a barrier to reciting Shema or berachot. It also presents a barrier to others. This is so even if the erva is behind a glass barrier, or translucent garment, since it remains visible.
In general, how should we look at others?
Outside of the conjugal relationship, men are not permitted to stare at any part of a woman’s body for the purpose of deriving pleasure. Some halachic authorities maintain that there is a parallel prohibition for women looking at men.
How do these limitations play out in the discussion of erva?
Assuming men have greater limitations on what they look at, the Talmud widens the restrictions on what a man is permitted to see during keri’at Shema.
A man may not recite Shema in front of a tefach (handbreadth) or more of exposed parts of a woman’s body that are typically covered, such as the torso. These are considered to be erva for him, regardless of his intent or reaction to seeing them. Some halachic authorities maintain that even less than a tefach presents an issue.
How do these limitations on men affect women?
Halachic discussions of women’s dress take it as a matter of course that women shouldn’t deliberately uncover a tefach of areas that have been defined as erva in the presence of men.
Any other details?
The Talmud singles out the shok as erva. The mishna stipulates that the shok is the lower leg. Biblical verses likely use this term to refer to the upper leg. Halachic authorities debate which definition of shok applies here:
- Mishna Berura rules that the shok is the upper leg, including the knee, leaving coverage of the lower leg to custom. In communities that follow this view, there may be grounds for less than a tefach of the knee to show.
- Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach follows the view that the lower leg must be covered at all times.
Are pants a legitimate halachic option for covering the shok?
The prohibition of cross-dressing (Devarim 22:5) likely does not apply to pants, since definitions of male articles of clothing vary with place and time. (We discuss keli gever here.)
Pants are still subject to debate, though, because they make the split between the legs more pronounced than skirts do, and often emphasize the shape of the limbs.
Does anyone permit wearing pants? Under what conditions?
Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin reportedly found loose wide-legged trousers, like palazzos, halachically acceptable. More recently, Rav Nahum Rabinovitch argues that Halacha allows for women to wear loose, modest pants below a top layer (such as a long tunic) that reaches toward the knee. He emphasizes, though, that a woman should only wear this type of outfit when it fits her community’s norms.
What other reservations are there about pants?
The skirt or dress has become a badge of identification with the community of observant Jews. Rav J. David Bleich writes that people who are serious about Torah study and mitzva observance must take special care to dress in a way that the community accepts, in order to bring honor to Torah.
In Depth
Rav Ezra Bick, Ilana Elzufon, Shayna Goldberg, Sarah Rudolph, and Rav Da’vid Sperling, eds.
Erva in Society
Previously, we looked at the laws of covering one’s own erva. Halacha also discusses the laws of erva in interpersonal settings.
According to basic Torah law, one person may not pray or recite Shema or a beracha. when facing someone else’s exposed genitalia (or buttocks). This law applies whether or not the exposure seems to have a distracting effect.1 When one’s own or another’s erva is visible, the halacha is to turn away from it before reciting Shema, or at least to close one’s eyes:2
שולחן ערוך אורח חיים הלכות קריאת שמע עה: ו
היתה ערוה כנגדו, והחזיר פניו ממנה, או שעצם עיניו…מותר לקרות, דבראייה תלה רחמנא והא לא חזי לה.
Shulchan Aruch OC 75:6
If there was erva in front of him and he turned his face away from it or closed his eyes…it is permissible to recite Shema, for the matter depends on seeing, and he does not see it.
The Talmud teaches that this halacha remains in place even if the erva is on the other side of a glass barrier, because it remains visible:
תלמוד בבלי ברכות כה:
ערוה בעששית אסור לקרות קריאת שמע כנגדה )דברים כ”ג( ולא יראה בך ערות דבר, אמר רחמנא, והא קמיתחזיא.
Berachot 25b
It is prohibited to recite Shema in the presence of erva [visible] through a glass. “He should not see in you a matter of nakedness,” said God – and behold, it is visible.
Just as glass does not count as a cover for erva, translucent garments cannot constitute coverage for men or women.
משנה ברורה סימן עה ס”ק כה
בעששית – היא של זכוכית או בגד דק המנהיר עד שנראית הערוה
Mishna Berura 75:25
Through a glass: This is of glass or a thin cloth through which light shows so that it [erva] is visible.
Form-fitting clothing may technically count as a cover for erva. We will see in our discussion of pants, however, that it is considered immodest because it is revealing in its own way.
Looking at Others
What guidelines does the Torah offer for how we look at other people, even when we aren’t praying, or reciting Shema or berachot?
I. Men The Talmud teaches that, outside of the conjugal relationship, men are not permitted to stare at any part of a woman’s body. Rambam adds that this is an issue specifically when the man looks for the purpose of deriving pleasure.
ברכות כד.
כל המסתכל באצבע קטנה של אשה כאילו מסתכל במקום התורף [=כינוי לאיברים אינטימיים]
Berachot 24a
Whoever looks [for pleasure] at a woman’s little finger is like one who looks at her genitalia.
רמב”ם איסורי ביאה כא:ב
והמסתכל אפילו באצבע קטנה של אשה ונתכוון להנות כמי שנסתכל במקום התורף
Mishneh Torah Issurei Bi'a 21:2
One who looks even at a woman’s little finger with intent to derive pleasure is like one who looks at her genitalia.
As we have seen, the hand is a part of the body that is normally uncovered. So this passage teaches that a man may not look at any part of a woman’s body – not even (just) her finger – at any time with a view to objectifying it.
There are two prohibitions involved. One is “lo taturu acharei levavchem ve-acharei eineichem” (Bemidbar 15:39), that one should not stray after one’s heart and eyes. The second is “ve-nishmarta mi-kol davar ra” (Devarim 23:10), “guard yourself from every bad thing,” meaning a man should not act in a way that would so arouse him that it might lead to a seminal emission (even if involuntary).
II. Women Halachic authorities debate whether there is a parallel prohibition of women looking at men for pleasure. The scriptural opening for this discussion is a passage in which young women take their time guiding Shaul in finding the prophet Shemuel.3
ברכות מח:
כבאכם העיר כן תמצאון אותו בטרם יעלה הבמתה לאכול כי לא יאכל העם עד באו כי הוא יברך הזבח אחרי כן יאכלו הקראים. וכל כך למה? לפי שהנשים דברניות הן. ושמואל אמר: כדי להסתכל ביפיו של שאול
Berachot 48b
“When you come to the city, you’ll find him before he goes up to the high place to eat, for the people will not eat until he comes, because he will bless the sacrifice, after that those who were called there will eat.” Why all of this [verbiage from the women]? Because women are talkative. Shemuel [the Amora] said: In order to look upon the beauty of Shaul.
Perhaps the young women simply spoke a lot because they liked to chatter, or perhaps, as Shemuel suggests, they enjoyed gazing at Shaul. The Talmud introduces this possibility without opprobrium. But Midrash Yalkut Shimoni cites another view:
ילקוט שמעוני שמואל א רמז קח
מביטות בנויו של שאול היו ולא היו שבעות ממנו דברי ר’ יהודה, אמר ליה ר’ יוסי אם כן עשית בנות ישראל כזונות והלא כשם שאי אפשר לאיש לזון את עיניו מאשה שאינה ראויה לו כך אי אפשר לאשה לזון את עיניה מאיש שאינו שלה, אלא שלא הגיע עדין השעה.
Yalkut Shimoni Shemuel I:108
They were looking at Shaul’s beauty and they couldn’t get enough of him, the words of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Yosei said to him: If so, you have equated daughters of Israel to prostitutes. Is it not the case that just as a man may not feast his eyes on a woman who is not fitting for him [to marry], so too a woman may not feast her eyes on a man who is not hers? Rather, the time had not come yet [for Shaul to meet Shemuel].
According to the first opinion in this midrash, Rabbi Yehuda’s, the young women indeed enjoyed taking in Shaul’s good looks, and this was harmless (Shemuel’s view in the Talmud). According to the second opinion here, Rabbi Yosei’s, this type of behavior would be highly inappropriate.
In line with the Talmud’s perspective, Rav Ovadya Yosef rules that no prohibition applies to women looking at men:
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק א – אורח חיים סימן ו
אכן בברכות (מח:) אמר שמואל כדי להסתכל ביפיו של שאול, ולא חייש לקושיא זו, אלמא דלא חיישי[נן] בנשים דלאו בנות הרגשות נינהו…יש ליישב מה שנהגו להקל בזה שסוברים שאין דברי הילקוט אליבא דהלכתא, לפי המבואר בברכות (מח:)…והעיקר כמש”כ [=כמו שכתבתי] להתיר בזה.
Yabia Omer I OC 6
Indeed, in Berachot 48b, Shemuel said “in order to look at the beauty of Shaul” and he was not concerned about this difficulty [of women ogling men], therefore we are not concerned about women [ogling men], for they are not prone to physical effects …One can justify the practice to be lenient about this because the Yalkut Shimoni is not in accordance with the halacha, in light of what is explained in Berachot…The fundamental halacha is as I wrote to permit this [women looking freely at men].
Rav Ovadya assumes that women are not as physically affected by the sight of men as men are by the sight of a woman, and therefore may freely look at men. Other authorities, however, argue that a woman may not look at a man with deliberate intent to derive sexual pleasure from what she sees:
שו”ת שבט הלוי חלק ה סימן קצז
אין להכחיש שאם באמת מסתכלים לשם זנות ואישות עוברים הנשים כמו האנשים דלא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם הוא לאו השוה בכל שמצווין הנשים על הלאוין כמו האנשים, א”כ [=אם כן] אין ספק שצודק התנא הקדוש ר’ יוסי שגם אשה לא תזון עיניה מאיש שאינו שלה, אבל ותזון עיניה היא יותר מהבטה וראיה סתם כאשר מורה הלשון, אבל לראות סתם ויביטו באנשים בלי לזון עיניהם דהיינו בלי מחשבה של אישות כמו שרואים הם כרגיל מבית הכנסת של הנשים בודאי לא מצינו לאבותינו ורבותינו שחששו לזה.
Responsa Shevet Ha-levi 5:197
One cannot deny that if they [women] really look [at men] for the purpose of sexual pleasure, women transgress like men. For “you shall not stray after your hearts and after your eyes” is a negative commandment that applies equally to everyone, for women are obligated in negative commandments like men. If so, there is no doubt that the holy Tanna Rabbi Yosei was correct that a woman too should not feast her eyes on a man who is not her [husband] But feasting her eyes is more than looking or just seeing, as the language indicates. But just to see or to look at men without feasting their eyes, i.e., without sexual thoughts, as they see them regularly from the women’s section of the synagogue, certainly we did not find that our forefathers and rabbi were concerned about that.
Shevet Ha-levi agrees that Halacha treats men’s looking at the opposite sex more stringently than women’s. Still, he acknowledges that a woman might find the sight of a man’s body arousing, and that Halacha puts constraints on that. Presumably, halachic parameters of this sort would apply to men or women looking at someone they find attractive, regardless of that person’s gender, with intent to derive sexual pleasure.
Extending Erva
Women are allowed to pray or recite Shema or berachot in the presence of other women who are not completely clothed, but whose Torah-level erva (i.e. genitalia and buttocks) is not exposed.4
משנה ברורה סימן עה : ח
אף אשה אחרת מותרת לקרות ולהתפלל נגדה כשהיא ערומה.
Mishna Berura 75:8
Even another woman may recite Shema and pray in her [a first woman’s] presence when she [the first woman] is naked [as long as her genitalia are not visible].
However, based on the assumption that men have a greater tendency to become aroused by what they see of women than the reverse, the Talmud widens the restrictions on what a man is permitted to see of a woman during keri’at Shema beyond Torah-level erva:
ברכות כד.
אמר רבי יצחק: טפח באשה ערוה. למאי? אילימא לאסתכולי בה, והא אמר רב ששת…כל המסתכל באצבע קטנה של אשה כאילו מסתכל במקום התורף. אלא באשתו, ולקריאת שמע.
Berachot 24a
Rabbi Yitzchak said: A tefach [handsbreadth] of a woman is erva. With respect to what? If you say for looking at her, behold Rav Sheshet said… Whoever looks [for pleasure] at a woman’s little finger is like one who looks at her genitalia. Rather, the tefach applies [specifically/even] to his wife, and for keri’at Shema.
Rav Yitzchak states that on a rabbinic level, a tefach of a woman is considered erva. Since ogling or staring is already prohibited by Rav Sheshet’s statement, regardless of the measurement of exposure, Rav Yitzchak must be referring to a more specific situation: a tefach of a man’s wife being visible at the time of Keri’at Shema.
Two core questions emerge from this passage: Where is the tefach under discussion? And what is the meaning of the reference to a man’s wife?
I. Tefach A tefach is a linear measurement, so in this passage it might mean that some bodily region with a height of 8-10.4 cm is exposed. Rav Moshe Feinstein, however, defines tefach in the context of erva as a bodily region with an area of a square tefach, roughly 64-108 square centimeters,5 and his view is widely accepted. On average, this is a bit larger than the area of the palm of the hand.
Rosh explains that the tefach under discussion is found on parts of the body that women typically cover, such as the torso.
תוספות הרא”ש ברכות כד.
טפח באשה ערוה. פי[רוש] מה שרגיל להיות מכוסה באשה אי הוי טפח ממנו מגולה הוי ערוה
Tosafot Ha-Rosh Berachot 24a
A tefach of a woman is nakedness [erva]. Meaning, that which is typically covered in a woman, if a tefach of it is uncovered, that is considered erva.
A man may not recite Shema in front of a tefach or more of exposed parts of a woman’s body that are typically covered. They are considered to be erva for him.
II. His Wife There are two different ways to understand what the Talmud means by specifying a man’s wife here.
Some halachic authorities, including Shulchan Aruch, explain that a tefach is considered nakedness in the context of Shema even if the woman is a man’s own wife. This view allows for a man to see up to a tefach exposed of any woman at any time, his wife included.
Others, including Rema, take the Talmud’s mention of a tefach of a man’s wife to mean that the leniency of a tefach only applies in the case of a man’s wife. A man may not recite Shema in the presence of even less than a tefach exposed on another woman.
שולחן ערוך אורח חיים עה: א
טפח מגולה באשה, במקום שדרכה לכסותו, אפי[לו] היא אשתו, אסור לקרות ק”ש [=קריאת שמע] כנגדה. הגה: וי”א [=ויש אומרים] דוקא באשתו, אבל באשה אחרת אפילו פחות מטפח הוי ערוה
Shulchan Aruch OC 75:1
An exposed tefach of a woman, in a place that she usually covers, even if it is his wife, would be forbidden to recite Kri’at Shema before it. Rema: Some say specifically with his wife, but with regard to another woman even less than a tefach would be considered erva.
On Shulchan Aruch’s reading, that the tefach measurement applies to all women, the Talmud’s mention of a man’s wife simply teaches that she, too, is included, even though her husband is intimately familiar with her. According to Rema, even less than a tefach on other women might pose a halachic issue.
It is inappropriate for a man to see parts of a woman’s body that are typically covered, whether or not he intends to derive pleasure from them or actually experiences attraction or arousal.
While this halacha applies directly to men, it applies indirectly to women. Exposing typically covered areas to the extent that it presents halachic difficulties for someone else is inconsiderate, at odds with the values of ahavat Yisrael and tzeniut as well as the practice of dat Yehudit.
Relating to men is not the exclusive or primary reason for women to dress with tzeniut. That being said, halachic discussions of women’s dress take it as a matter of course that a woman who observes mitzvot would not and may not deliberately uncover a tefach or more of an area defined as erva, or typically-covered in the presence of most men.6
Why should a woman's clothing be limited by how men might react to what they see? How does this affect different halachic expectations of women's and men's clothing?
We have discussed how clothing serves a range of personal and social functions. On a social level, Halacha has an interest in ensuring that men and women do not objectify each other based on their appearances. One side of this coin is limits on what we look at; the flip side is limits on what we display.
The halachic discussion tends to put the onus of not looking on the man and the onus of not displaying on the woman. We have seen, though, that there are limits on what women should look at and how, and there are also limits on what men should reveal.
This can be complicated ground to navigate, especially for women. While the primary obligation is for men and women to take responsibility for their own decisions and responses, being part of a community means that we consider the effects of our own decisions on others.
Rav Ovadya Yosef expresses a range of halachic objections to immodest clothing. One of his suggestions is that wearing revealing clothing is a potential violation of the Biblical prohibition of placing a stumbling block before the blind, lifnei iver, because revealing clothing could lead men to improper sexual thoughts.
שו”ת יחווה דעת חלק ג סימן סז
והדבר ברור שנשים שהולכות ברחוב בבגדי פריצות כאלה עוברות גם על איסור ולפני עור לא תתן מכשול, שהן גורמות לאנשים להסתכל בהן, ולבוא לידי הרהורי עבירה הקשים מעבירה.
Yechaveh Da'at III:67
The matter is clear that women who go in the street in immodest garments like these also transgress the prohibition of not placing a stumbling block before the blind, for they cause men to gaze at them and to have improper thoughts of transgression, which are more serious than [actual] transgression.
Note that, even according to Rav Yosef’s view, lifnei iver is not the sole reason for a woman to dress with care, and lifnei iver might be limited to clothing styles that are genuinely provocative.
Promoting lifnei iver as a reason to dress with tzeniut can leave a woman feeling guilty, as if somehow her very presence is a “stumbling block” for men. When taken to an extreme, this attitude can have unintended consequences, such as censoring all pictures of women, even those modestly dressed, or dictating very stringent standards of dress for a woman to completely obscure the shape of her body.
Furthermore, if we focus overmuch on women’s “covering up” for the sake of men, we risk implying that this is the primary reason to dress with tzeniut, when it is one among many.
At the same time, stricter constraints on what men are permitted to see, based on a halachic presumption that their reactions to visual stimuli tend to be stronger than women’s, do account for at least some of the asymmetry between halachic guidelines for men’s and women’s clothing. Additionally, natural interest in male attention may sometimes contribute to women’s struggles with the halachot of clothing.
Regardless, we should aspire to foster a healthy society, in which women and men take responsibility for presenting ourselves and seeing others appropriately and respectfully.
When we are conscious of tzeniut and work to promote positive and appropriate interactions, we create a community conducive to holiness.
The Shok
After extending the definition of erva beyond genitalia to typically-covered body parts, the Talmud singles out the shok (part of a woman’s leg):
תלמוד בבלי ברכות כד.
אמר רב חסדא: שוק באשה ערוה, שנאמר (ישעיהו מז:ב) גלי שוק עברי נהרות, וכתיב (ישעיהו מז:ג) תגל ערותך וגם תראה חרפתך.
Berachot 24a
Rav Chisda said: A woman’s shok is erva, as it is written “Reveal your shok and cross rivers” (Yeshayahu 47:2) and then is written, “Expose your erva and your shame will also be seen” (Yeshayahu 47:3).
The mention of shok may simply serve to make clear that the shok is considered erva, even though one might have thought otherwise.7 Alternatively, at least for married women,8 the shok may be treated more stringently than other typically-covered areas of the body, perhaps because of its proximity to Torah-level erva (genitalia). This stringency may be to treat even less than a tefach of the shok as erva.9
ב”ח אורח חיים עה
ונראה דנקט שוק דאפילו פחות מטפח חשוב נמי ערוה
Bach OC 75
It seems that he specified shok because even less than a tefach [there] is also considered erva.
In any case, we need to define what the shok is. The mishna stipulates that the shok is the lower leg , between knee and ankle:
משנה מסכת אהלות פרק א:ח
מאתים וארבעים ושמונה אברים באדם שלשים בפיסת הרגל ששה בכל אצבע עשרה בקורסל שנים בשוק חמשה בארכובה אחד בירך
Mishna Oholot 1:8
There are 248 limbs in a human being: thirty in the sole of the foot, six in each toe, ten in the ankle, two in the shok [lower leg], five in the knee, one in the thigh…
The Biblical verses quoted in the Talmud, however, likely refer to the upper leg ,10 which when exposed would be more likely to expose Torah-level erva (genitalia).
ר’ יוסף קרא ישעיהו מ”ז:ב
גלי שוק – ירך העליונה
Rav Yosef Kara, Yeshayahu 47:2
Reveal your shok – the upper thigh.
Semag writes that the meaning of “shok” does vary between Biblical and rabbinic Hebrew:
תוספות ישנים יומא עא:
ומשונה הוא מלשון המקרא דלשון חכמים לעצמו שהרי כמו כן מצינו בשוק של שלמים דפליגי על ר’ יהודה בסוף משנה דפרק הזרוע (דף קלד ב) שהיא מן הארכובה ולמעלה אף על פי שבכל מקום בתלמוד קורא שוק מן הארכובה ולמטה
Tosafot Yeshanim Yoma 71b
It is different from the language of Scripture, for the language of the sages is its own entity. So too we find regarding the shok [thigh] of the peace offering over which they dispute with Rabbi Yehuda in the end of the Mishna in Chullin, which is from the knee and up [because it is mentioned in the Bible], even though in every [other] place in the Talmud, “shok” means from the knee and down.
In that case, the ruling here could go either way. On the one hand, a Talmudic sage is speaking. On the other hand, he is basing himself on a Biblical prooftext. Halachic authorities debate which definition of shok applies to the halachot of dress.11
In Practice
Though we saw alternative explanations for the statement that the shok is erva, Chazon Ish argues that it would have been unnecessary to tell us this if the shok is the thigh, because that is obviously typically-covered. Therefore, shok likely refers to the lower portion of the leg between the knee and the heel.
חזון איש או”ח סימן טז אות ח
שוק נראה שהוא פרק התחתון מארכובה עד כף העקב, אבל מן הארכובה ולמעלה לא היה צריך להשמיע…וקשה להכריע בדבר.
Chazon Ish OC 15:8
The shok seems to be the lower portion (of the leg) from the knee to the sole of the heel, but from the knee and upwards, they would not have had to teach….It is difficult to decide the matter.
On this view, even the lower portion of the leg should be covered. Though Chazon Ish himself goes on to acknowledge that it is difficult to be sure which part of the leg is the shok, Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach follows the approach that shok is the lower leg, and adds that it must be covered at all times. At the same time, he recognizes the lenient view of shok as thigh as a viable halachic position.
מנחת שלמה ג:קג:טו
לענין “שוק” ידוע שיש סוברים שזה רק הירך אבל רבו החולקים על זה, ולכן צריכים ודאי להקפיד לא לצאת לרחוב בלי גרבים, אבל אין לגעור במקום שההמון הפשוט לא מקפיד על כך, אך אין להתחשב כלל עם מנהג נשים שאינן זהירות גם במה שפשוט ואסור לכל הדעות.
Minchat Shelomo III:103:15
Regarding the matter of “shok,” it is known that there are those who think it is only the thigh, but there are many dissenters, and therefore one must certainly be careful not to go out to the street without stockings. But one should not criticize those in a place where the masses are not meticulous to observe this. However, one should not take into account at all the custom of those women who are not careful even about what is clearly prohibited according to all opinions.
Mishna Berura, however, rules that the shok is the upper leg, including the knee:
משנה ברורה על שולחן ערוך אורח חיים עה : א:ב
אבל פניה וידיה כפי המנהג שדרך להיות מגולה באותו מקום וכן בפרסות רגל עד השוק [והוא עד המקום שנקרא קניא בל”א [=בלשון אשכנז] ] במקום שדרכן לילך יחף מותר לקרות כנגדו שכיון שרגיל בהן אינו בא לידי הרהור ובמקום שדרכן לכסות שיעורן טפח כמו שאר גוף האשה אבל זרועותיה ושוקה אפילו רגילין לילך מגולה כדרך הפרוצות אסור:
Mishna Berura 75:1:2
But her face and hands, according to the custom to uncover them in that place, and similarly the portion of the leg until the shok [meaning, up to the place called “Knie” in German (”knee”)], in a place where it is their way to go barefoot, [a man] is permitted to recite Shema in front of it since he is accustomed to seeing them and does not come to have improper thoughts. And in a place where they are accustomed to cover [the lower leg], the measurement is a tefach as with the rest of a woman’s body. But her arms and thigh [shok], even if women are accustomed to go about with them exposed like the immodest, it is prohibited [to recite Shema when they are visible].
According to this view, the lower leg and the foot need only be covered where that is customary.
Note that Rav Shlomo Zalman and Mishna Berura agree that women must cover the upper leg no matter what is widely practiced around her.
Rav Moshe Feinstein’s treatment of the question of shok is somewhat different. Like Mishna Berura, he accepts the lenient view allowing for revealing the lower leg as the basic halacha. Like Rav Shlomo Zalman, he recommends covering it with stockings. His reasoning is different, though, based solely on what he considers to be dignified and modest clothing. Since he maintains that the lower leg isn’t considered erva, even sheer stockings would be acceptable:
שו”ת אגרות משה אבן העזר חלק ד סימן ק:ו
אם יש טעם להקפיד שילכו הבנות באנפילאות כשאין מקפידין שלא יהו דקות כך שהבשר לא יראה מתוכן. ובהא שיש אנשים שמקפידים שלא ילכו נשותיהן ובנותיהן בלא אנפילאות על רגליהן אבל אין מקפידין שיהיו האנפילאות באופן שא”א [=שאי אפשר] להראות שכתר”ה [=כבוד תורתו הרמה] הקשה דאיזה חלוק יש דאם חשיבין לערוה גם למטה מהארכובה שקורין קני”א אין מועילין כלום דערוה בעששית אסור ואם כהמ”ב [=כהמשנה ברורה] שאינו בדין ערוה אין צורך אנפילאות, האמת הוא שהוא לצניעות יותר מחמת שלהלכה עד הקני”א אינו ערוה.
Iggerot Moshe, Even haEzer IV 100:6
Is there reason to insist that girls wear stockings, without insisting that they shouldn’t be too sheer, so that skin should not be visible through them? As there are men who insist that their wives and daughters not go without stockings on their feet, but they do not insist that these stockings be the type though which it is impossible to see. You [kevod Torato] asked what difference there is, for if they consider even below the knee to be erva, this does not accomplish anything, for erva through a glass is forbidden. And if [they follow the opinion] of the Mishna Berura that it is not erva, then there is no need for stockings! The truth is that it is for greater tzeniut, since halachically until the knee is not erva.
In practice, in some communities, there might be grounds for allowing less than a tefach of the knee occasionally to show.12 However, given that even halachic authorities who rule leniently about the lower leg still treat the knee as part of the shok, and given the close proximity of the upper leg to Torah-level erva, a woman relying on their view should make every effort to cover the knee.
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק ו – יורה דעה סימן יד
ובנות הלובשות חצאיות קצרות או שמלות קצרות למעלה מן הברך, צריך להשתדל להשפיע עליהן בדרכי נועם ללבוש חצאיות או שמלות צנועות, באופן שמכסות את הברכים גם בעת ישיבתן.
Yabi'a Omer VI YD 14
Regarding girls who wear short skirts or short dresses above the knee, one must make an effort to influence them in pleasant ways to wear modest skirts or dresses, in a manner that covers the knees even when they are sitting.
Pants
One possible option for covering the shok is to wear pants (trousers). In the mid to late twentieth century, halachic discussions arose about whether women’s pants violated the prohibition of lo yihiyeh cheli gever al isha, “a man’s article [of clothing] shall not be on a woman” (Devarim 22:5).
Since definitions of keli gever vary with place and time and take into account the non-Jewish community, and since women’s pants, or gender-neutral ones, have become ubiquitous, many halachic authorities maintain that that claim would not apply today.13
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק ו – יורה דעה סימן יד
לאחר שנתפשט הדבר בזה”ז [=בזמן הזה] בלבישת מכנסים לנשים בהרבה מקומות, אין בזה משום לא יהיה כלי גבר על אשה, כיון שעכ”פ [=שעל כל פנים] אינו מיוחד לאנשים דוקא. ומכ”ש [ומכל שכן] שיש הבדל ניכר בין המכנסים של נשים למכנסי גברים.
Yabia Omer 6:14
Since the matter of women wearing trousers has spread nowadays to many places, there is no issue of keli gever, since in any case it is not designated specifically for men. Even more so since there is a recognizable distinction between women’s and men’s trousers.
We return to this issue in the final installment of this series.
Objections
A distinct halachic objection to wearing pants relates to a comment by Rashi, on a Talmudic discussion of the Torah’s use of euphemisms in describing the impurity conveyed to a surface on which a zav or zava sits:14
פסחים ג.
תניא דבי רבי ישמעאל: לעולם יספר אדם בלשון נקיה שהרי בזב קראו מרכב ובאשה קראו מושב.
Pesachim 3a
It was taught [in a baraita] in the beit midrash of Rabbi Yishmael: A person should always speak in clean language, for regarding the zav [man with unusual genital emissions] He calls [the surface he rides on] a riding seat and regarding a woman [zava] He calls it a seat.
רש”י פסחים ג.
…לפי שאין הגון להזכיר רכיבה ופיסוק רגלים באשה.
Rashi ad loc.
Because it is improper to mention riding and spreading of legs regarding a woman.
The Torah itself goes out of its way to avoid hinting at the split between a woman’s legs, referencing her “sitting” but not specifying “riding” as it does regarding a man.
One might argue that physically showing or emphasizing the split between a woman’s legs, as pants can, must be even more problematic than discussing it would have been. On the other hand, clothing with a division between the legs might be less suggestive than discussing a woman spreading her legs (or her actually spreading them, even in a skirt).15
Rav Eliezer Waldenberg objects to clothing that makes such an action more clearly pronounced, and also to tight clothing that emphasizes distinct limbs.16
שו”ת ציץ אליעזר חלק יא סימן סב
… וממש ברגליהן תעכסנה (ע”פ יש’ ג:טז) בפיסוק הרגלים דמינכרי ובהבלטת מחצב מבנה גופם רח”ל [=רחמנא ליצלן]…שלבישת מכנסיים כגון אלה הם כשלעצמם מגלמים הערות–דבר…
Tzitz Eliezer 11:62
…Really [it is a case of] “jingling with their legs” [to attract attention, cf. Yeshayahu 3:16] with a noticeable split of the legs [pisuk raglayim] and with the emphasis of the figure of their bodily structure, God forbid…For wearing trousers like these is in and of itself ‘ervat davar,’ a matter of erva.
Rav Ovadya Hedaya adds that a split in the legs up to the crotch is particularly immodest.
שו”ת ישכיל עבדי ה יו”ד כ:ו
ואינו מלבוש של צנועים, מכיון שהרגלים חלוקים א’ מהשנית עד בית הרחם…
Yaskil Avdi 5 YD 20:6
It [trousers] is not clothing of the modest, since the legs are split one from the other up to the crotch…
Whatever the core objection, pants worn under a skirt or tunic, or those with a very low crotch (like aladdin pants), would seem to resolve the issue.
Not only women need be careful about the modesty of pants. In a responsum that compares the pants of the kohanim to men’s pants of our day, Rav Yitzchak Ratzabi cautions men, too, against wearing immodest pants:17
שו”ת עולת יצחק א אבן העזר קמח
דמכנסיים שלנו [=של גברים כיום]…לאו צרים ממש שדחוקין לבשר מאד כמנהג הפרוצים, דאלו ודאי אסור…
Responsa Olat Yitzchak I EH 148
For our trousers [of men today]…are not really narrow that they cling to the flesh like the custom of the immodest, for those are certainly prohibited…
Permissive Views
Some halachic authorities, reportedly including Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin (a leading halachic authority in twentieth-century America), maintain that a woman is permitted to wear loose trousers without additional coverage. Rav Yehuda Henkin records his grandfather’s opinion:18
בני בנים א מאמר א:לח
שאלתי אותו זצלה”ה אם מותר לאשה ללבוש מכנסים והשיב לי שאם המכנסים רפויים ואינם מהודקים להגוף אינו רואה בזה שום איסור ואדרבה יש בו משום צניעות, אבל אם הם מהודקים ודבוקים להגוף אין ללבוש אותם.
Benei Banim I Article 1:38
I asked him [Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin] if it is permissible for a woman to wear trousers. He responded to me that if the trousers are loose and do not cling to the body, he does not see any prohibition in that. On the contrary, it can have [a quality of] tzeniut. But if they are tight and cling to the body one should not wear them.
The key issue for Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin is more tzeniut per se than pants versus skirts. He provides halachic support for a woman who wishes to wear loose, wide-legged trousers, like palazzos or baggy pants, without need for any tunic or skirt over them.
At the same time, there may be broader considerations. Rav Nahum Rabinovitch also writes that halacha allows for women to wear modest women’s pants, but he emphasizes that a woman should not do so in contravention of community norms.19
שו”ת שיח נחום קט, לבוש מכנסי חצאית
לפיכך, מכנסיים שהם מיוחדים לנשים והם צנועים, אם הדבר מקובל ביישוב שאת גרה בו הדבר מותר. באשר לטוניקה על המכנסיים, אם הכיסוי מכסה את רוב הירך (החלק שבין האגן לברך), הרי גם הרגליים מכוסות ואף החלק העליון של הרגל מכוסה כדמות חצאית, והרי זה לבוש צנוע….אמנם אם את הולכת למקום בו הדבר אינו מקובל, וכגון שאת נוסעת להתארח ביישוב ששם אין נוהגות להלך כך, מן הראוי לכבד את דרכי הלבוש באותו מקום….בעניינים של לבוש יש דברים שהם הלכות, ויש דברים שהם מנהגים שנקבעים על ידי דפוסים חברתיים של זמן ומקום…בכלל בענייני צניעות במלבושים אל לו לאדם להעמיד את דרכו רק על שורת הדין, אלא מן הראוי לכבד את מנהגי המקום של חברת שומרי תורה ומצוות אליה הוא רוצה להשתייך
Si'ach Nachum 109
Therefore, women’s trousers that are modest, if the matter is accepted in the community in which you live, are permissible. Regarding a tunic over trousers, if it covers most of the thigh (the area between the pelvis and the knee), then the legs are covered, and the upper part of the leg is also covered as with a skirt, and this is modest dress…However, if you go to a place where this is not accepted, as when you travel to visit a community where women do not go about thus, it is fitting to respect the manner of dress in that place…In matters of clothing, there are matters that are halachot, and there are matters that are customs that are set by social mores of that time and place…In all matters of tzeniut of clothing, a person should not have his path depend only on the technicalities of the law, but rather it is fitting to respect local customs of the society of those who observe Torah and mitzvot with which one wishes to affiliate.
Rav Rabinovitch acknowledges that, in some circles, wearing pants underneath another layer reaching most of the way to the knee has become widely accepted as normative Jewish women’s modest attire in public. In other circles, only skirts or dresses are considered appropriate.
Other Arguments
Rav Elyakim Ellinson calls the skirt or dress the contemporary Jewish woman’s version of a kippa:
רב אליקים אלינסון, הצנע לכת, עמ’ 192
קיימת בחינה אחרת לצניעות, שיסודה בעצם המוסכמות הקיימות בציבור בנות ישראל הצנועות. העובדה שציבור זה נזהר ללכת דווקא בחצאית, מעניקה ערך משמעותי להקפדה זאת; על ידי לבישת החצאית מזדהה בת ישראל עם חוגים אלו … במידה מסוימת נהפכה החצאית בעשרות השנים האחרונות למעין “כיפה” של הבת שומרת מצוות בקפדנות והמשתדלת לנהל את חייה לפי הנחיות המוסר של חכמינו.
Rav Elyakim Ellinson, The Modest Way, English ed., 263, fn. 129
Another factor that must be taken into account, however, is the existence of a community of modest Jewish girls with their own standard. The fact that they are careful to wear only skirts, affords significant weight to this stricture. By wearing a skirt, a Jewish girl identifies with this group…To a certain extent, in the last few decades the skirt has become a sort of ‘yarmulka’ for the scrupulously observant…
Rav Ellinson allows for wearing pants for specific purposes, like a hike on which a skirt would be immodest or possibly even dangerous, but prefers skirts as a badge of identification whenever possible. His words may not apply as broadly today as they did when he wrote them in the early 1980s. Still, a decision to wear skirts carries social and communal meaning beyond the letter of the law.
In effect, Rav Ellinson argues that wearing a skirt or dress should be treated as dat Yehudit. He views the skirt as a mode of dress that identifies a woman as careful in her observance of Torah and mitzvot, and can remind her of her identification with her religious community.
Writing more recently, Rav J. David Bleich adds another argument to the mix, that people who are serious about their Torah study and their mitzva observance must take care to always ensure that their clothing brings honor to the Torah itself.
Rabbi J.D. Bleich, Contemporary Halachic Problems VII, p. 147
The governing concern is that those viewed as exemplars of Torah study, whether male or female, comport themselves in a way which enhances rather than detracts from the honor and esteem in which Torah is held. Hence it would seem that as long as slacks are viewed as improper attire by significant segments of the Jewish community, the wearing of such garb by those charged with bearing the banner of Torah should not be sanctioned.
If a “significant segment” of the community will perceive pants as improper attire, that is a genuine concern.
Aren't pants sometimes more modest than skirts?
They can be.
In cases in which a woman will need to move in a way that will inevitably be more revealing with a skirt, she should wear pants under a skirt or tunic, or loose modest trousers, for as long as necessary. (It goes without saying that modest pants should be worn when they are required for reasons of safety.)
Given a choice is between a short skirt or pants, Rav Ovadya Yosef rules that pants are preferable:
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק ו – יורה דעה סימן יד
ומכל מקום מודה אני שאין להתיר כאן לכתחלה לבישת מכנסים אלה לבנות, כי בגדי שחץ הן, …ואין לבנות ישראל הכשרות ללכת בהן כלל. ובפרט במכנסים המהודקות ממש …ומכל מקום אם אין הבנות שומעות לקול הורים ומורים להמנע מלבישת חצאיות קצרות ביותר, והולכות בשוק וירך מגולות, שהיא פריצות יתירה, יש לבחור הרע במיעוטו, ולהורות להן כהוראת שעה ללבוש מכנסים.
Yabi'a Omer 6 YD 14
In any case, I agree that ideally one should not permit girls to wear these trousers, for they are haughty clothes…Kosher daughters of Israel should not go about in them at all. Especially in trousers that are really tight…But still, if the girls will not listen to the voices of parents and teachers to avoid wearing very short skirts, and they go in the marketplace with their thighs exposed, which is exceedingly immodest, one should choose the less bad option and instruct them as a temporary ruling to wear trousers.
Considerations of modesty are not always identical to those of “Jewish dress.” Women sometimes choose to wear skirts to demonstrate religious Jewish affiliation. In some contexts, even short skirts might convey a certain commitment to affiliating with a given community, though they don’t comply with Halacha.
Beyond the Hemline
Tzeniut is certainly more than a “list of rules,” but it also includes real halachic standards and measures. Learning about tzeniut doesn’t have to be from books, and traditionally, like other aspects of dat Yehudit, it wasn’t. Education through modeling can be the most effective form of education. The sources we’ve seen are perhaps best used as guidelines for understanding those halachic parameters, and for making wise choices about which role models we should emulate.
Blogger Chaya Houpt shares some thoughts about what it means for her to model tzeniut in dress for her children:
Chaya Houpt, 'Teaching Tznius,' All Victories (blog)
I want my daughters and my son to grow into people who intrinsically understand modesty and want to embody it. That’s not going to happen by me pulling rank and making [my daughter] change her clothes. It’s only going to happen, with God’s help, if my husband and I continually model tzniut, modesty, and encourage it in our children…. What counts is how she feels about herself and her own worth, and how she learns gradually to manifest self-respect in the way she dresses….And so I tread lightly, careful not to misrepresent the Torah as shaming or oppressive.
Is it possible to dress completely modestly without following the precise details of Halacha?
One can be a modest person without following all the details of Halacha. Conversely, one can follow the details of Halacha without really being modest. Clothing trends popular even in observant communities often include styles that are provocative, even as most of the body is covered.
On the whole, halachic guidelines for dress do promote dressing with dignity. These laws are binding, and we have seen additional reasons for them besides modesty.
As with any mitzva, we should strive to fulfill both the letter and spirit of the law.
Further Reading
- Ellinson, Rabbi Elyakim Getsel. Woman and the Mitzvot: Guide to the Rabbinic Sources Vol. 2, The Modest Way, trans. Raphael Blumberg. Jerusalem: World Zionist Organization Department for Torah Education and Culture in the Diaspora, 1992.
- Haber, Rav Shemuel. Et Tzenu’im Chochma, Vol. 1. Karnei Shomron, 2007.
- Henkin, Rav Yehuda. Understanding Tzniut. Jerusalem: Urim Publications, 2008.
Notes
משנה ברורה סימן עה
… אסור אפילו בעוצם עיניו עד שיחזיר פניו … ויש מתירין בזה אם הוא נזהר מלראות כלל. וכשא”א [=וכשאי אפשר] בענין אחר נראה דיש לסמוך ע”ז [=על זה]:
Mishna Berura 75:1
…It is prohibited even if he closes his eyes, until he turns his face away…There are those who permit it [reciting Shema in front of erva with eyes closed] so long as he is careful not to see it at all. When it is impossible any other way, it seems that one can rely on this.
שמואל א פרק ט: יא-יג
הֵמָּה עֹלִים בְּמַעֲלֵה הָעִיר וְהֵמָּה מָצְאוּ נְעָרוֹת יֹצְאוֹת לִשְׁאֹב מָיִם וַיֹּאמְרוּ לָהֶן הֲיֵשׁ בָּזֶה הָרֹאֶה: וַתַּעֲנֶינָה אוֹתָם וַתֹּאמַרְנָה יֵּשׁ הִנֵּה לְפָנֶיךָ מַהֵר עַתָּה כִּי הַיּוֹם בָּא לָעִיר כִּי זֶבַח הַיּוֹם לָעָם בַּבָּמָה: כְּבֹאֲכֶם הָעִיר כֵּן תִּמְצְאוּן אֹתוֹ בְּטֶרֶם יַעֲלֶה הַבָּמָתָה לֶאֱכֹל כִּי לֹא יֹאכַל הָעָם עַד בֹּאוֹ כִּי הוּא יְבָרֵךְ הַזֶּבַח אַחֲרֵי כֵן יֹאכְלוּ הַקְּרֻאִים וְעַתָּה עֲלוּ כִּי אֹתוֹ כְהַיּוֹם תִּמְצְאוּן אֹתוֹ:
Shemuel I 9:11-13
They were going up the ascent to the city and they found young women going out to draw water and they said to them, is the seer around here? And they answered them and they said, “He is, here before you, quickly now, for today he has come to the city for today there is a sacrifice of the people at the high place. When you come to the city, you’ll find him before he goes up to the high place to eat, for the people will not eat until he comes, because he will bless the sacrifice, after that those who were called there will eat, and now go up, for him – like today, you will find him.”
4. As we will see below, the Talmud discusses restrictions on reciting Shema in the presence of a woman who is not fully dressed. Rashba specifies that these restrictions do not apply to other women. (Rosh Berachot 3:37, cited by Rema 75:1, disagrees on this point.)
רשב”א ברכות כד. ד”ה אמר רב חסדא
ודוקא לאחרים ולאנשים ומשום הרהור, אבל לעצמה לא, דהא קתני האשה יושבת וקוצה לה חלתה ערומה
Rashba Berachot 24a s.v. Amar Rav Chisda
Specifically for others and for men, because of improper thoughts [the exposed area is considered erva], but for herself it is not [considered erva], for we learn in a Mishna, “A woman may sit and separate her challa naked.”
5. Rav Moshe makes this point in the context of discussing head-covering, writing that a woman can expose an area of two fingerbreadths (half a tefach) by two tefachim. Rav Yehuda Henkin, though, discusses another possible definition, “an uncovered area of which both length and width are at least a tefach.” Some lenient opinions may rely on this definition. (See Rav Yehuda Henkin, Understanding Tzniut [Jerusalem:Urim, 2008], 15-17, 24.)
שו”ת אגרות משה אבן העזר חלק א: נח
…ולכן כיון שבדין מקומות המכוסים יש חלוק בין טפח לפחות …גם בשערות יש חלוק זה…. ולכן אין לאסור כשרוצה לגלות…אבל הוא רק ערך ב’ אצבעות בגובה שהפנים הוא ערך אורך ב’ טפחים ויהיה בצרוף פחות מטפח ויותר אסורה.
Responsa Iggerot Moshe EH I:58
…Therefore, since in the law of typically-covered areas there is a distinction between a tefach and less…this distinction also applies to hair…Therefore one should not prohibit if she wants to reveal [hair]…but only two [etzba’ot] fingerbreadths in height, since the face is about two tefachim wide so that altogether it will be less than a [square] tefach. More than that is prohibited.
7.
Perhaps because women may have occasionally uncovered it in some contexts or perhaps because a man’s shok is not considered erva for others.
.שיטה מקובצת ברכות כד.
שוק באשה ערוה. קא משמע לן שאף על פי שפעמים הוא נגלה דינו כמקום מכוסה שהוא מביא לידי ערוה:
Shita Mekubetzet Berachot 24a
שיטה מקובצת ברכות כד.
שוק באשה ערוה. קא משמע לן שאף על פי שפעמים הוא נגלה דינו כמקום מכוסה שהוא מביא לידי ערוה:
Shita Mekubetzet Berachot 24a
A woman’s shok is erva– This teaches us that even though it is sometimes exposed, its halachic status is like a typically-covered place, which leads to erva.
חידושי הרשב”א ברכות כד.
קאתי ר”ח [=רב חסדא] למימר דשוק באשה מקום צנוע וערוה הוא ואפילו לגבי בעלה אע”פ [=אף על פי] שאינו מקום צנוע באיש.
Rashba Berachot 24a
Rav Chisda comes to say that the shok of a woman is a tzanua place and erva even for her husband, even though it is not a tzanua place for a man.
9. See also Mishna Berura:
משנה ברורה עה:ז
ואם השוק מגולה י”א [=יש אומרים] דאפילו באשתו ופחות מטפח אסור לקרות נגדה שהוא מקום הרהור יותר משאר איברים.
Mishna Berura 75:7
If the shok is revealed, there are those who say that even with his wife and less than a tefach it is prohibited to recite [Shema] in front of it because it is a place more conducive than other limbs to improper thoughts.
רד”ק ישעיהו מ”ז:ב
והאשה אע”פ [=אף על פי] שמכסה רגליה בלכתה בדרך תגלה אותם ואם תעבור נהר תגלה אפילו השוק
Radak Yeshayahu 47:2
And the woman, even if she covers her legs, will reveal them when she walks on the way, and if she crosses a river will reveal even the shok.
מצודת ציון ישעיהו מ”ז:ב
שוק – כן יקרא גובה הרגל ממעל
Metzudat Tzion Yeshayahu 47:2
Shok – thus is called the high part of the leg above
הצנע לכת עמ’ 155 הערה 111
מדברי שו”ת אגרות משה אבן העזר א סימן נח משתמע, שבפחות מטפח אין לאשה עצמה לחשוש… לפי זה יש להעדיף חצאית המגיעה כמעט לברכיים על מכנסיים, וצ”ע [=וצריך עיון].
Rav Elyakim Ellinson, Woman and the Mitzvot, Vol. 2, The Modest Way, English ed., p. 209, fn. 105
Iggerot Moshe EH 58 implies that as long as a woman comes within a tefach of the minimum coverage, she need not worry.…Accordingly, a skirt almost reaching the knee should be better than trousers, yet further investigation is required.
13. We discuss keli gever in more detail here.
Rav Yitzchak Weiss, for example, views considers a woman wearing women’s pants to be in violation of keli gever:
שו”ת מנחת יצחק חלק ב סימן קח
באמת המה [מכנסים העשויים לנשים] בכלל כלי גבר ממש, דעדיין שם מכנסים עליהם, והגם שהם משונים קצת….
Minchat Yitzchak II: 108
Really they [women’s trousers] are fully keli gever, for they are still called “trousers,” even though they are a little different…
ויקרא טו:ט, כב
וְכָל הַמֶּרְכָּב אֲשֶׁר יִרְכַּב עָלָיו הַזָּב יִטְמָא…. וְכָל הַנֹּגֵעַ בְּכָל כְּלִי אֲשֶׁר תֵּשֵׁב עָלָיו יְכַבֵּס בְּגָדָיו וְרָחַץ בַּמַּיִם וְטָמֵא עַד הָעָרֶב:
Vayikra 15:9, 22.
Any riding gear the zav rides on becomes impure…Whoever touches any vessel that she [the zava] sits on should wash his clothes and immerse in water, and he will be impure until the evening.
15. See, for example, Rav Yehuda Henkin (available here.)
בני בנים ד:כח:ו
אם אין האשה מרחיבה בין רגליה אלא הולכת כרגיל אין זה פיסוק רגלים, אפילו אם היא לובשת מכנסיים, ואם היא מרחיבה בין רגליה הרבה הרי זה פיסוק רגלים ואינו צנוע אפילו אם היא לובשת שמלה ארוכה.
Benei Banim 4:28:6
If a woman does not spread her legs wide, but walks as usual, this is not spreading the legs [pisuk raglayim], even if she wears trousers. And if she spreads her legs wide, this is pisuk raglayim and immodest even if she is wearing a long dress.
Sources
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Erva in Society
שולחן ערוך אורח חיים הלכות קריאת שמע עה: ו
היתה ערוה כנגדו, והחזיר פניו ממנה, או שעצם עיניו…מותר לקרות, דבראייה תלה רחמנא והא לא חזי לה.
Shulchan Aruch OC 75:6
If there was erva in front of him and he turned his face away from it or closed his eyes…it is permissible to recite Shema, for the matter depends on seeing, and he does not see it.
תלמוד בבלי ברכות כה:
ערוה בעששית אסור לקרות קריאת שמע כנגדה )דברים כ”ג( ולא יראה בך ערות דבר, אמר רחמנא, והא קמיתחזיא.
Berachot 25b
It is prohibited to recite Shema in the presence of erva [visible] through a glass. “He should not see in you a matter of nakedness,” said God – and behold, it is visible.
משנה ברורה סימן עה ס”ק כה
בעששית – היא של זכוכית או בגד דק המנהיר עד שנראית הערוה
Mishna Berura 75:25
Through a glass: This is of glass or a thin cloth through which light shows so that it [erva] is visible.
Looking at Others
ברכות כד.
כל המסתכל באצבע קטנה של אשה כאילו מסתכל במקום התורף [=כינוי לאיברים אינטימיים]
Berachot 24a
Whoever looks [for pleasure] at a woman’s little finger is like one who looks at her genitalia.
רמב”ם איסורי ביאה כא:ב
והמסתכל אפילו באצבע קטנה של אשה ונתכוון להנות כמי שנסתכל במקום התורף
Mishneh Torah Issurei Bi'a 21:2
One who looks even at a woman’s little finger with intent to derive pleasure is like one who looks at her genitalia.
ברכות מח:
כבאכם העיר כן תמצאון אותו בטרם יעלה הבמתה לאכול כי לא יאכל העם עד באו כי הוא יברך הזבח אחרי כן יאכלו הקראים. וכל כך למה? לפי שהנשים דברניות הן. ושמואל אמר: כדי להסתכל ביפיו של שאול
Berachot 48b
“When you come to the city, you’ll find him before he goes up to the high place to eat, for the people will not eat until he comes, because he will bless the sacrifice, after that those who were called there will eat.” Why all of this [verbiage from the women]? Because women are talkative. Shemuel [the Amora] said: In order to look upon the beauty of Shaul.
ילקוט שמעוני שמואל א רמז קח
מביטות בנויו של שאול היו ולא היו שבעות ממנו דברי ר’ יהודה, אמר ליה ר’ יוסי אם כן עשית בנות ישראל כזונות והלא כשם שאי אפשר לאיש לזון את עיניו מאשה שאינה ראויה לו כך אי אפשר לאשה לזון את עיניה מאיש שאינו שלה, אלא שלא הגיע עדין השעה.
Yalkut Shimoni Shemuel I:108
They were looking at Shaul’s beauty and they couldn’t get enough of him, the words of Rabbi Yehuda. Rabbi Yosei said to him: If so, you have equated daughters of Israel to prostitutes. Is it not the case that just as a man may not feast his eyes on a woman who is not fitting for him [to marry], so too a woman may not feast her eyes on a man who is not hers? Rather, the time had not come yet [for Shaul to meet Shemuel].
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק א – אורח חיים סימן ו
אכן בברכות (מח:) אמר שמואל כדי להסתכל ביפיו של שאול, ולא חייש לקושיא זו, אלמא דלא חיישי[נן] בנשים דלאו בנות הרגשות נינהו…יש ליישב מה שנהגו להקל בזה שסוברים שאין דברי הילקוט אליבא דהלכתא, לפי המבואר בברכות (מח:)…והעיקר כמש”כ [=כמו שכתבתי] להתיר בזה.
Yabia Omer I OC 6
Indeed, in Berachot 48b, Shemuel said “in order to look at the beauty of Shaul” and he was not concerned about this difficulty [of women ogling men], therefore we are not concerned about women [ogling men], for they are not prone to physical effects …One can justify the practice to be lenient about this because the Yalkut Shimoni is not in accordance with the halacha, in light of what is explained in Berachot…The fundamental halacha is as I wrote to permit this [women looking freely at men].
שו”ת שבט הלוי חלק ה סימן קצז
אין להכחיש שאם באמת מסתכלים לשם זנות ואישות עוברים הנשים כמו האנשים דלא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם הוא לאו השוה בכל שמצווין הנשים על הלאוין כמו האנשים, א”כ [=אם כן] אין ספק שצודק התנא הקדוש ר’ יוסי שגם אשה לא תזון עיניה מאיש שאינו שלה, אבל ותזון עיניה היא יותר מהבטה וראיה סתם כאשר מורה הלשון, אבל לראות סתם ויביטו באנשים בלי לזון עיניהם דהיינו בלי מחשבה של אישות כמו שרואים הם כרגיל מבית הכנסת של הנשים בודאי לא מצינו לאבותינו ורבותינו שחששו לזה.
Responsa Shevet Ha-levi 5:197
One cannot deny that if they [women] really look [at men] for the purpose of sexual pleasure, women transgress like men. For “you shall not stray after your hearts and after your eyes” is a negative commandment that applies equally to everyone, for women are obligated in negative commandments like men. If so, there is no doubt that the holy Tanna Rabbi Yosei was correct that a woman too should not feast her eyes on a man who is not her [husband] But feasting her eyes is more than looking or just seeing, as the language indicates. But just to see or to look at men without feasting their eyes, i.e., is without sexual thoughts, as they see them regularly from the women’s section of the synagogue, certainly we did not find that our forefathers and rabbi were concerned about that.
Extending Erva
משנה ברורה סימן עה : ח
אף אשה אחרת מותרת לקרות ולהתפלל נגדה כשהיא ערומה.
Mishna Berura 75:8
Even another woman may recite Shema and pray in her [a first woman’s] presence when she [the first woman] is naked [as long as her genitalia are not visible].
ברכות כד.
אמר רבי יצחק: טפח באשה ערוה. למאי? אילימא לאסתכולי בה, והא אמר רב ששת…כל המסתכל באצבע קטנה של אשה כאילו מסתכל במקום התורף. אלא באשתו, ולקריאת שמע.
Berachot 24a
Rabbi Yitzchak said: A tefach [handsbreadth] of a woman is erva. With respect to what? If you say for looking at her, behold Rav Sheshet said… Whoever looks [for pleasure] at a woman’s little finger is like one who looks at her genitalia. Rather, the tefach applies [specifically/even] to his wife, and for keri’at Shema.
תוספות הרא”ש ברכות כד.
טפח באשה ערוה. פי[רוש] מה שרגיל להיות מכוסה באשה אי הוי טפח ממנו מגולה הוי ערוה
Tosafot Ha-Rosh Berachot 24a
A tefach of a woman is nakedness [erva]. Meaning, that which is typically covered in a woman, if a tefach of it is uncovered, that is considered erva.
שולחן ערוך אורח חיים עה: א
טפח מגולה באשה, במקום שדרכה לכסותו, אפי[לו] היא אשתו, אסור לקרות ק”ש [=קריאת שמע] כנגדה. הגה: וי”א [=ויש אומרים] דוקא באשתו, אבל באשה אחרת אפילו פחות מטפח הוי ערוה
Shulchan Aruch OC 75:1
An exposed tefach of a woman, in a place that she usually covers, even if it is his wife, would be forbidden to recite Kri’at Shema before it. Rema: Some say specifically with his wife, but with regard to another woman even less than a tefach would be considered erva.
שו”ת יחווה דעת חלק ג סימן סז
והדבר ברור שנשים שהולכות ברחוב בבגדי פריצות כאלה עוברות גם על איסור ולפני עור לא תתן מכשול, שהן גורמות לאנשים להסתכל בהן, ולבוא לידי הרהורי עבירה הקשים מעבירה.
Yechaveh Da'at III:67
The matter is clear that women who go in the street in immodest garments like these also transgress the prohibition of not placing a stumbling block before the blind, for they cause men to gaze at them and to have improper thoughts of transgression, which are more serious than [actual] transgression.
The Shok
תלמוד בבלי ברכות כד.
אמר רב חסדא: שוק באשה ערוה, שנאמר (ישעיהו מז:ב) גלי שוק עברי נהרות, וכתיב (ישעיהו מז:ג) תגל ערותך וגם תראה חרפתך.
Berachot 24a
Rav Chisda said: A woman’s shok is erva, as it is written “Reveal your shok and cross rivers” (Yeshayahu 47:2) and then is written, “Expose your erva and your shame will also be seen” (Yeshayahu 47:3).
ב”ח אורח חיים עה
ונראה דנקט שוק דאפילו פחות מטפח חשוב נמי ערוה
Bach OC 75
It seems that he specified shok because even less than a tefach [there] is also considered erva.
משנה מסכת אהלות פרק א:ח
מאתים וארבעים ושמונה אברים באדם שלשים בפיסת הרגל ששה בכל אצבע עשרה בקורסל שנים בשוק חמשה בארכובה אחד בירך
Mishna Oholot 1:8
There are 248 limbs in a human being: thirty in the sole of the foot, six in each toe, ten in the ankle, two in the shok [lower leg], five in the knee, one in the thigh…
ר’ יוסף קרא ישעיהו מ”ז:ב
גלי שוק – ירך העליונה
Rav Yosef Kara, Yeshayahu 47:2
Reveal your shok – the upper thigh.
תוספות ישנים יומא עא:
ומשונה הוא מלשון המקרא דלשון חכמים לעצמו שהרי כמו כן מצינו בשוק של שלמים דפליגי על ר’ יהודה בסוף משנה דפרק הזרוע (דף קלד ב) שהיא מן הארכובה ולמעלה אף על פי שבכל מקום בתלמוד קורא שוק מן הארכובה ולמטה
Tosafot Yeshanim Yoma 71b
It is different from the language of Scripture, for the language of the sages is its own entity. So too we find regarding the shok [thigh] of the peace offering over which they dispute with Rabbi Yehuda in the end of the Mishna in Chullin, which is from the knee and up [because it is mentioned in the Bible], even though in every [other] place in the Talmud, “shok” means from the knee and down.
In Practice
חזון איש או”ח סימן טז אות ח
שוק נראה שהוא פרק התחתון מארכובה עד כף העקב, אבל מן הארכובה ולמעלה לא היה צריך להשמיע…וקשה להכריע בדבר.
Chazon Ish OC 15:8
The shok seems to be the lower portion (of the leg) from the knee to the sole of the heel, but from the knee and upwards, they would not have had to teach….It is difficult to decide the matter.
מנחת שלמה ג:קג:טו
לענין “שוק” ידוע שיש סוברים שזה רק הירך אבל רבו החולקים על זה, ולכן צריכים ודאי להקפיד לא לצאת לרחוב בלי גרבים, אבל אין לגעור במקום שההמון הפשוט לא מקפיד על כך, אך אין להתחשב כלל עם מנהג נשים שאינן זהירות גם במה שפשוט ואסור לכל הדעות.
Minchat Shelomo III:103:15
Regarding the matter of “shok,” it is known that there are those who think it is only the thigh, but there are many dissenters, and therefore one must certainly be careful not to go out to the street without stockings. But one should not criticize those in a place where the masses are not meticulous to observe this. However, one should not take into account at all the custom of those women who are not careful even about what is clearly prohibited according to all opinions.
משנה ברורה על שולחן ערוך אורח חיים עה : א:ב
אבל פניה וידיה כפי המנהג שדרך להיות מגולה באותו מקום וכן בפרסות רגל עד השוק [והוא עד המקום שנקרא קניא בל”א [=בלשון אשכנז] ] במקום שדרכן לילך יחף מותר לקרות כנגדו שכיון שרגיל בהן אינו בא לידי הרהור ובמקום שדרכן לכסות שיעורן טפח כמו שאר גוף האשה אבל זרועותיה ושוקה אפילו רגילין לילך מגולה כדרך הפרוצות אסור:
Mishna Berura 75:1:2
But her face and hands, according to the custom to uncover them in that place, and similarly the portion of the leg until the shok [meaning, up to the place called “Knie” in German (”knee”)], in a place where it is their way to go barefoot, [a man] is permitted to recite Shema in front of it since he is accustomed to seeing them and does not come to have improper thoughts. And in a place where they are accustomed to cover [the lower leg], the measurement is a tefach as with the rest of a woman’s body. But her arms and thigh [shok], even if women are accustomed to go about with them exposed like the immodest, it is prohibited [to recite Shema when they are visible].
שו”ת אגרות משה אבן העזר חלק ד סימן ק:ו
אם יש טעם להקפיד שילכו הבנות באנפילאות כשאין מקפידין שלא יהו דקות כך שהבשר לא יראה מתוכן. ובהא שיש אנשים שמקפידים שלא ילכו נשותיהן ובנותיהן בלא אנפילאות על רגליהן אבל אין מקפידין שיהיו האנפילאות באופן שא”א [=שאי אפשר] להראות שכתר”ה [=כבוד תורתו הרמה] הקשה דאיזה חלוק יש דאם חשיבין לערוה גם למטה מהארכובה שקורין קני”א אין מועילין כלום דערוה בעששית אסור ואם כהמ”ב [=כהמשנה ברורה] שאינו בדין ערוה אין צורך אנפילאות, האמת הוא שהוא לצניעות יותר מחמת שלהלכה עד הקני”א אינו ערוה.
Iggerot Moshe, Even haEzer IV 100:6
Is there reason to insist that girls wear stockings, without insisting that they shouldn’t be too sheer, so that skin should not be visible through them? As there are men who insist that their wives and daughters not go without stockings on their feet, but they do not insist that these stockings be the type though which it is impossible to see. You [kevod Torato] asked what difference there is, for if they consider even below the knee to be erva, this does not accomplish anything, for erva through a glass is forbidden. And if [they follow the opinion] of the Mishna Berura that it is not erva, then there is no need for stockings! The truth is that it is for greater tzeniut, since halachically until the knee is not erva.
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק ו – יורה דעה סימן יד
ובנות הלובשות חצאיות קצרות או שמלות קצרות למעלה מן הברך, צריך להשתדל להשפיע עליהן בדרכי נועם ללבוש חצאיות או שמלות צנועות, באופן שמכסות את הברכים גם בעת ישיבתן.
Yabi'a Omer VI YD 14
Regarding girls who wear short skirts or short dresses above the knee, one must make an effort to influence them in pleasant ways to wear modest skirts or dresses, in a manner that covers the knees even when they are sitting.
Pants
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק ו – יורה דעה סימן יד
לאחר שנתפשט הדבר בזה”ז [=בזמן הזה] בלבישת מכנסים לנשים בהרבה מקומות, אין בזה משום לא יהיה כלי גבר על אשה, כיון שעכ”פ [=שעל כל פנים] אינו מיוחד לאנשים דוקא. ומכ”ש [ומכל שכן] שיש הבדל ניכר בין המכנסים של נשים למכנסי גברים.
Yabia Omer 6:14
Since the matter of women wearing trousers has spread nowadays to many places, there is no issue of keli gever, since in any case it is not designated specifically for men. Even more so since there is a recognizable distinction between women’s and men’s trousers.
פסחים ג.
תניא דבי רבי ישמעאל: לעולם יספר אדם בלשון נקיה שהרי בזב קראו מרכב ובאשה קראו מושב.
Pesachim 3a
It was taught [in a baraita] in the beit midrash of Rabbi Yishmael: A person should always speak in clean language, for regarding the zav [man with unusual genital emissions] He calls [the surface he rides on] a riding seat and regarding a woman [zavot] He calls it a seat.
רש”י פסחים ג.
…לפי שאין הגון להזכיר רכיבה ופיסוק רגלים באשה.
Rashi ad loc.
Because it is improper to mention riding and spreading of legs regarding a woman.
שו”ת ציץ אליעזר חלק יא סימן סב
… וממש ברגליהן תעכסנה (ע”פ יש’ ג:טז) בפיסוק הרגלים דמינכרי ובהבלטת מחצב מבנה גופם רח”ל [=רחמנא ליצלן]…שלבישת מכנסיים כגון אלה הם כשלעצמם מגלמים הערות–דבר…
Tzitz Eliezer 11:62
…Really [it is a case of] “jingling with their legs” [to attract attention, cf. Yeshayahu 3:16] with a noticeable split of the legs [pisuk raglayim] and with the emphasis of the figure of their bodily structure, God forbid…For wearing trousers like these is in and of itself ‘ervat davar,’ a matter of erva.
שו”ת ישכיל עבדי ה יו”ד כ:ו
ואינו מלבוש של צנועים, מכיון שהרגלים חלוקים א’ מהשנית עד בית הרחם…
Yaskil Avdi 5 YD 20:6
It [trousers] is not clothing of the modest, since the legs are split one from the other up to the crotch…
שו”ת עולת יצחק א אבן העזר קמח
דמכנסיים שלנו [=של גברים כיום]…לאו צרים ממש שדחוקין לבשר מאד כמנהג הפרוצים, דאלו ודאי אסור…
Responsa Olat Yitzchak I EH 148
For our trousers [of men today]…are not really narrow that they cling to the flesh like the custom of the immodest, for those are certainly prohibited…
בני בנים א מאמר א:לח
שאלתי אותו זצלה”ה אם מותר לאשה ללבוש מכנסים והשיב לי שאם המכנסים רפויים ואינם מהודקים להגוף אינו רואה בזה שום איסור ואדרבה יש בו משום צניעות, אבל אם הם מהודקים ודבוקים להגוף אין ללבוש אותם.
Benei Banim I Article 1:38
I asked him [Rav Yosef Eliyahu Henkin] if it is permissible for a woman to wear trousers. He responded to me that if the trousers are loose and do not cling to the body, he does not see any prohibition in that. On the contrary, it can have [a quality of] tzeniut. But if they are tight and cling to the body one should not wear them.
שו”ת שיח נחום קט, לבוש מכנסי חצאית
לפיכך, מכנסיים שהם מיוחדים לנשים והם צנועים, אם הדבר מקובל ביישוב שאת גרה בו הדבר מותר. באשר לטוניקה על המכנסיים, אם הכיסוי מכסה את רוב הירך (החלק שבין האגן לברך), הרי גם הרגליים מכוסות ואף החלק העליון של הרגל מכוסה כדמות חצאית, והרי זה לבוש צנוע….אמנם אם את הולכת למקום בו הדבר אינו מקובל, וכגון שאת נוסעת להתארח ביישוב ששם אין נוהגות להלך כך, מן הראוי לכבד את דרכי הלבוש באותו מקום….בעניינים של לבוש יש דברים שהם הלכות, ויש דברים שהם מנהגים שנקבעים על ידי דפוסים חברתיים של זמן ומקום…בכלל בענייני צניעות במלבושים אל לו לאדם להעמיד את דרכו רק על שורת הדין, אלא מן הראוי לכבד את מנהגי המקום של חברת שומרי תורה ומצוות אליה הוא רוצה להשתייך
Si'ach Nachum 109
Therefore, women’s trousers that are modest, if the matter is accepted in the community in which you live, are permissible. Regarding a tunic over trousers, if it covers most of the thigh (the area between the pelvis and the knee), then the legs are covered, and the upper part of the leg is also covered as with a skirt, and this is modest dress…However, if you go to a place where this is not accepted, as when you travel to visit a community where women do not go about thus, it is fitting to respect the manner of dress in that place…In matters of clothing, there are matters that are halachot, and there are matters that are customs that are set by social mores of that time and place…In all matters of tzeniut of clothing, a person should not have his path depend only on the technicalities of the law, but rather it is fitting to respect local customs of the society of those who observe Torah and mitzvot with which one wishes to affiliate.
רב אליקים אלינסון, הצנע לכת, עמ’ 192
קיימת בחינה אחרת לצניעות, שיסודה בעצם המוסכמות הקיימות בציבור בנות ישראל הצנועות. העובדה שציבור זה נזהר ללכת דווקא בחצאית, מעניקה ערך משמעותי להקפדה זאת; על ידי לבישת החצאית מזדהה בת ישראל עם חוגים אלו…. במידה מסוימת נהפכה החצאית בעשרות השנים האחרונות למעין “כיפה” של הבת שומרת מצוות בקפדנות והמשתדלת לנהל את חייה לפי הנחיות המוסר של חכמינו.
Rav Elyakim Ellinson, The Modest Way, English ed., 263, fn. 129
Another factor that must be taken into account, however, is the existence of a community of modest Jewish girls with their own standard. The fact that they are careful to wear only skirts, affords significant weight to this stricture. By wearing a skirt, a Jewish girl identifies with this group…To a certain extent, in the last few decades the skirt has become a sort of ‘yarmulka’ for the scrupulously observant…
Rabbi J.D. Bleich, Contemporary Halachic Problems VII, p. 147
The governing concern is that those viewed as exemplars of Torah study, whether male or female, comport themselves in a way which enhances rather than detracts from the honor and esteem in which Torah is held. Hence it would seem that as long as slacks are viewed as improper attire by significant segments of the Jewish community, the wearing of such garb by those charged with bearing the banner of Torah should not be sanctioned.
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק ו – יורה דעה סימן יד
ומכל מקום מודה אני שאין להתיר כאן לכתחלה לבישת מכנסים אלה לבנות, כי בגדי שחץ הן, …ואין לבנות ישראל הכשרות ללכת בהן כלל. ובפרט במכנסים המהודקות ממש …ומכל מקום אם אין הבנות שומעות לקול הורים ומורים להמנע מלבישת חצאיות קצרות ביותר, והולכות בשוק וירך מגולות, שהיא פריצות יתירה, יש לבחור הרע במיעוטו, ולהורות להן כהוראת שעה ללבוש מכנסים.
Yabi'a Omer 6 YD 14
In any case, I agree that ideally one should not permit girls to wear these trousers, for they are haughty clothes…Kosher daughters of Israel should not go about in them at all. Especially in trousers that are really tight…But still, if the girls will not listen to the voices of parents and teachers to avoid wearing very short skirts, and they go in the marketplace with their thighs exposed, which is exceedingly immodest, one should choose the less bad option and instruct them as a temporary ruling to wear trousers.
Chaya Houpt, 'Teaching Tznius,' All Victories (blog)
I want my daughters and my son to grow into people who intrinsically understand modesty and want to embody it. That’s not going to happen by me pulling rank and making [my daughter] change her clothes. It’s only going to happen, with God’s help, if my husband and I continually model tzniut, modesty, and encourage it in our children…. What counts is how she feels about herself and her own worth, and how she learns gradually to manifest self-respect in the way she dresses….And so I tread lightly, careful not to misrepresent the Torah as shaming or oppressive.
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Hashkafic Q&A
Why should a woman's clothing be limited by how men might react to what they see? How does this affect different halachic expectations of women's and men's clothing?
We have discussed how clothing serves a range of personal and social functions. On a social level, Halacha has an interest in ensuring that men and women do not objectify each other based on their appearances. One side of this coin is limits on what we look at; the flip side is limits on what we display.
The halachic discussion tends to put the onus of not looking on the man and the onus of not displaying on the woman. We have seen, though, that there are limits on what women should look at and how, and there are also limits on what men should reveal.
This can be complicated ground to navigate, especially for women. While the primary obligation is for men and women to take responsibility for their own decisions and responses, being part of a community means that we consider the effects of our own decisions on others.
Rav Ovadya Yosef expresses a range of halachic objections to immodest clothing. One of his suggestions is that wearing revealing clothing is a potential violation of the Biblical prohibition of placing a stumbling block before the blind, lifnei iver, because revealing clothing could lead men to improper sexual thoughts.
שו”ת יחווה דעת חלק ג סימן סז
והדבר ברור שנשים שהולכות ברחוב בבגדי פריצות כאלה עוברות גם על איסור ולפני עור לא תתן מכשול, שהן גורמות לאנשים להסתכל בהן, ולבוא לידי הרהורי עבירה הקשים מעבירה.
Yechaveh Da'at III:67
The matter is clear that women who go in the street in immodest garments like these also transgress the prohibition of not placing a stumbling block before the blind, for they cause men to gaze at them and to have improper thoughts of transgression, which are more serious than [actual] transgression.
Note that, even according to Rav Yosef’s view, lifnei iver is not the sole reason for a woman to dress with care, and lifnei iver might be limited to clothing styles that are genuinely provocative.
Promoting lifnei iver as a reason to dress with tzeniut can leave a woman feeling guilty, as if somehow her very presence is a “stumbling block” for men. When taken to an extreme, this attitude can have unintended consequences, such as censoring all pictures of women, even those modestly dressed, or dictating very stringent standards of dress for a woman to completely obscure the shape of her body.
Furthermore, if we focus overmuch on women’s “covering up” for the sake of men, we risk implying that this is the primary reason to dress with tzeniut, when it is one among many.
At the same time, stricter constraints on what men are permitted to see, based on a halachic presumption that their reactions to visual stimuli tend to be stronger than women’s, do account for at least some of the asymmetry between halachic guidelines for men’s and women’s clothing. Additionally, natural interest in male attention may sometimes contribute to women’s struggles with the halachot of clothing.
Regardless, we should aspire to foster a healthy society, in which women and men take responsibility for presenting ourselves and seeing others appropriately and respectfully.
When we are conscious of tzeniut and work to promote positive and appropriate interactions, we create a community conducive to holiness.
Aren't pants sometimes more modest than skirts?
They can be.
In cases in which a woman will need to move in a way that will inevitably be more revealing with a skirt, she should wear pants under a skirt or tunic, or loose modest trousers, for as long as necessary. (It goes without saying that modest pants should be worn when they are required for reasons of safety.)
Given a choice is between a short skirt or pants, Rav Ovadya Yosef rules that pants are preferable:
שו”ת יביע אומר חלק ו – יורה דעה סימן יד
ומכל מקום מודה אני שאין להתיר כאן לכתחלה לבישת מכנסים אלה לבנות, כי בגדי שחץ הן, …ואין לבנות ישראל הכשרות ללכת בהן כלל. ובפרט במכנסים המהודקות ממש …ומכל מקום אם אין הבנות שומעות לקול הורים ומורים להמנע מלבישת חצאיות קצרות ביותר, והולכות בשוק וירך מגולות, שהיא פריצות יתירה, יש לבחור הרע במיעוטו, ולהורות להן כהוראת שעה ללבוש מכנסים.
Yabi'a Omer 6 YD 14
In any case, I agree that ideally one should not permit girls to wear these trousers, for they are haughty clothes…Kosher daughters of Israel should not go about in them at all. Especially in trousers that are really tight…But still, if the girls will not listen to the voices of parents and teachers to avoid wearing very short skirts, and they go in the marketplace with their thighs exposed, which is exceedingly immodest, one should choose the less bad option and instruct them as a temporary ruling to wear trousers.
Considerations of modesty are not always identical to those of “Jewish dress.” Women sometimes choose to wear skirts to demonstrate religious Jewish affiliation. In some contexts, even short skirts might convey a certain commitment to affiliating with a given community, though they don’t comply with Halacha.
Is it possible to dress completely modestly without following the precise details of Halacha?
One can be a modest person without following all the details of Halacha. Conversely, one can follow the details of Halacha without really being modest. Clothing trends popular even in observant communities often include styles that are provocative, even as most of the body is covered.
On the whole, halachic guidelines for dress do promote dressing with dignity. These laws are binding, and we have seen additional reasons for them besides modesty.
As with any mitzva, we should strive to fulfill both the letter and spirit of the law.
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